: Successful Nonprofits Recession-Proof Your Nonprofit Job/Career

COVID, the Recession, & Your Job

Recession-Proof Your Career with Gary Hines

COVID, the Recession, & Your Job

Recession-Proof Your Career with Gary Hines

by goldenburggroup

With COVID and a budding recession, people around the world are stressed out about their jobs. If you have a job, you want to make sure you keep it. And if you lost your job, you want to find your next one as quickly as possible. For many people, both can feel beyond your control.

Today’s guest is an extraordinary career coach, Gary Hines. Gary shares actionable tips you can take to keep the job you have or find your next one. Listen in and take control of your career!

Listen to the Episode Here!

Links

Gary Hines Consulting, LLC Website

Gary Hines Consulting’s Facebook

Gary Hines’ LinkedIn

Timestamps

(4:41) How to hang on to the job you have

(13:46) How to plan for the worst

(15:48) How to find the perfect job (despite a recession)

Transcript

Dolph Goldenburg (00:00):

Welcome to the Successful Nonprofits® Podcast. I’m your host, Dolph Goldenburg. Today we will be speaking with veteran career coaching expert, Gary Hines, about how to keep a job during the recession or find a new one if you’ve lost your job. Before I do the intro, though, I just want to share with you that I am so excited because Gary Hines was the featured guest on the very first episode of this podcast. And I am eternally grateful to Gary. If you have never started a podcast, I need to share with you that those first 5, 10, 15 episodes are the hardest time to find guests. I knew Gary from my time in Philadelphia, and frankly, he was doing me a huge favor by coming on the podcast. He was a phenomenal guest, one of the biggest scores that we had early on in the podcast.

Dolph Goldenburg (00:56):

The podcast has had a very gradual accumulation of listeners. We’re recording this episode in July, and we’re celebrating our four year anniversary. So in July, 2016 we started the podcast. Back then, if an episode was downloaded 50 times in its first week, it was a big deal. Now an episode might be downloaded 500 or 600 times in its first week and a thousand times in its first few months. So I am so excited and so happy to be able to have Gary on because he has so much great knowledge to share. And now he’s going to be sharing it with an even wider audience. Both Gary and I do a lot of coaching, but in very different areas. He provides coaching to find a job that is a great fit for you as well as coaching that will make you more successful at work. Most of my coaching revolves around first year executive directors and chief executives that are facing a crisis.

Dolph Goldenburg (01:58):

Before I introduce Gary, I want to let you know that we’ll be offering group coaching starting this fall, and you guessed it. One group will be designed to support the success of first time, executive directors and a second group to support leaders, experiencing financial funding board and other types of crisis. During the COVID recession, each group will have a structured, but flexible curriculum. Bill will enable budget conscious organizations to get quality support for their leadership at a cost that won’t break the bank. So if you’re interested in one of these groups, head over to successful nonprofits.com to learn more and apply with participate.

Dolph Goldenburg (02:39):

We do record a month or two in advance. So right now job numbers are looking just a little bit more hopeful. But the easing in unemployment numbers is kind of like a 15 foot flood ebbing by just a couple of inches. And most people still feel at risk of drowning. Unemployment has decreased a little as businesses open across the country and schools think about how, or even whether, they’re going to reopen this fall. But we still have a long way to go before COVID-19 is under control and employment stabilizes. Some of us are fortunate to have secure jobs right now. Some of us feel secure at the moment, but are aware that they might experience a hefty budget cut as nonprofits’ fiscal years come to a close. And then others may not feel secure at all. Maybe it’s because they’ve already been informed of the layoff or perhaps even sitting at home right now without a job. So I know that many are wondering how to keep food on the table, a roof over the head and the bills paid. In short, how do you keep or find a new job in this time of COVID uncertainty. So Gary Hines joins us today to discuss this question. Gary started his career as a college administrator, but one day realized the role was just not the right fit for him. So he decided to not only reinvent himself, but help lots of people build a professional life that they love today. He is the founder of Gary Hines Consulting where he provides program development and management, business analysis, and of course, career coaching. So please join me in welcoming Gary to the podcast. Hey Gary, welcome to the podcast.

Gary Hines (04:37):

Hi, Dolph. How are you? Good to talk to you again and see you this time.

Dolph Goldenburg (04:41):

I know. Last time we were recording on the phone because I didn’t know any better. And now we actually record where we can see each other. So Gary, a lot of Listeners may be sitting at their desk or sitting at home right now, fearful that budget cuts are coming and wondering how they will make it through the round of layoffs that may be about to happen. So what do you recommend for all those folks who want to hang on to their job right now?

Gary Hines (05:04):

Well, there’s a couple of things. First, I’d like to start off by saying in this global pandemic, I hope people can realize and understand that this is something that we’re prayerful will pass. Things will return to normal. It’s been a blessing to some people because they’ve been able to expand businesses or their business practice. It’s been a detriment to others that have been laid off or downsized or had to take on more responsibility. But just know that we can all benefit from utilizing the time we have now under this current situation. So I’m always reminded to keep faith, keep hope, and that we will be able to get past this at some point in our lives. So that’s one way I like to think about things, keep the positive things going.

Gary Hines (05:47):

One of the best things we can do right now is make sure we’re being the absolute best that we can be on the job. So I’m saying that everybody should try to be a model employee and even go a little bit above and beyond that. I like to ask people how they can add value to their organization. One of the best ways to do that is to make sure you are up to date on your strengths and skills. Be up to date on the latest trends, information, tools, and techniques in your field. Incorporate the latest data and software into your programs and daily routines. All of these things add value to you and your responsibilities. This can transcend any industry or position. You can be an engineer, you can be a school teacher, you can be a bus driver. Whatever it is, make sure you’re doing the latest, most up to date version of that role. This way people can look at you a little bit differently. They can say, “What is it about this person that makes them a better employee for us at this point, as far as what they bring to the table?” So again, one of the key things is to make sure you are up on your current tools, techniques, trade, etc.

Gary Hines (07:50):

Another thing I think you can do to keep yourself in a position is to make sure you are up to date on the industry. What are the trends, the forecast, the predictions in your industry that you can bring to the table and present to leadership? I would even say maybe do some outside research. Create a white paper or conduct a SWOT analysis you can share with your leadership and board to share what’s happening in your particular industry and even give some recommendations for how your organization to implement. So the bottom line that you want to keep up with things that could affect the business. And you want to be able to communicate that with people in leadership positions at your organization. Let them know that you are aware of what’s happening and your thinking about what’s coming down the road. Again, these are some of the basic skills and the basic things that I think that you should do.

Dolph Goldenburg (09:35):

One of the things I would think about, whether you’re in a position that’s designed to bring revenue in or not, are some ways that you can help build revenue or create momentum or marketing. And so, as an example, it could be that you’re a case manager. Go to the development department and say, “Hey, what if we had our case management clients write anonymous thank you notes that you can send to donors?” When it comes time to determine which case manager is going to be laid off, you’re going to be seen as the person who is looking for solutions and not the person who’s almost paralyzed with fear of losing the job.

Gary Hines (10:24):

You’re exactly right. Offering new opportunities for sales, for revenue generation, maybe tapping into new markets, seeing how we could take the product or the services or the operation into new industries, into new areas. I hate to use this term, but thinking outside of the box. Forward-thinking. Forecasting trends. What is it that you can bring in and share with these people? Because folks need to know that you are on top of this, that you really know what’s happening. So again, when there’s a choice between two people, they are going to go with the person that brings to the table all of this new intelligence. It really, really helps the leadership make a decision.

Dolph Goldenburg (11:26):

And I could not agree with you more. This is definitely the time to make sure that you’re at work on time. If you’re supposed to be at work at nine, then you need to be at your work station and ready to go at nine. If you’re supposed to have 30 minutes for lunch, don’t turn that into 45 minutes. And really communicate well with your manager and your coworkers so that they see you as the person who’s really trying and really working to make sure that, as a team, we’re all doing what we’re supposed to do.

Gary Hines (11:57):

Oh, definitely. I definitely agree on that. So you are going above and beyond the normal job duties and responsibilities. You are putting yourself out there. You may also volunteer to do things like help others on projects that you’re not really involved in. And, yes, this may mean coming in a little bit early or working on off hours or working on projects that are not necessarily related to your specific job. But the fact that you’re willing and you’re open to do whatever it takes to help the company succeed adds value to you as a person, as an employee. And then leadership and management can take that, look at you and say, “Hey, look at them. They’re really stepping up to the plate during this crisis.”

Dolph Goldenburg (12:50):

And the other big benefit that I think people will see out of stepping up to the plate is building their own skill set. So, as an example, the organization just goes out of business and everybody loses their job. Now, when that person is in the job market, they have multiple skill sets to rely on, not just case manager or fundraising. They can say, “Oh, I also know a little bit about this and about that. And here are the projects I’ve done.” As I think about my early career, 25 years ago, some of my best learning experiences were not in my job description. My boss or someone else higher than me in the organization came to me and was like, “Hey, Dolph, will you do XYZ?? And I would jump at it and I would do it eagerly. Those were some of my best learning experiences because it wasn’t in my job description. I wasn’t being evaluated on it. It was really an opportunity for me to learn and grow.

Gary Hines (13:46):

Yes, exactly. You touched on some really good points there, Dolph. In this time we’re living in, there must be anxiety associated with every job that’s out there. Will I be laid off? Will I be let go? How do I weather that storm? So in my opinion, the best way somebody can weather that storm is to have a good plan of action in place. Preparation is certainly the key. And when I say preparation that may be as simple as taking a career assessment. What are you really interested in? What is it that you bring to the table? What are your hard skills? Your soft skills? Your transferable skills? Then think about where all of that could be used in another industry. Is it possible that there is an opening or an opportunity at another department in your organization where can you apply your existing skills?

Dolph Goldenburg (14:52):

I think that’s such a good point. I think so often as humans, as professionals, we want to focus so much of our attention on our weaknesses and make them go from being weaknesses to being acceptable. Whereas you reach a point in your career where what you need to do is leverage your strengths and find the jobs where you can use those skills and that will pay you what you need to make.

Gary Hines (15:16):

Exactly. And you know 21st century skills are the key right now in any economy, in any industry. Having those skills like initiative, self-control teamwork, working independently, following directions, communication, office culture. These are things that are important in any industry, any job position. If you can take those and actually make them a strength for you, it might be easier for you as you go out on a job search.

Gary Hines (15:48):

So, let’s say it does happen and you actually do get laid off and there’s no other opportunities within the current existing organization. Then go back to the assessment. What can I bring to the table? What can I transfer over into another industry? I think it’s critical that, regardless of what industry you’re in, you look at supporting organizations that are the supply chains of that industry. So let’s say you’re in education and you were teaching. And as we know, the pandemic has changed things to the point where many teachers are no longer teaching face to face. So let’s say you are now teaching virtually. And that’s something new for you, it’s uncomfortable for you. Or maybe just registration and the number of students you’re going to have in the fall is going to be completely different. Well, how do you change something like that? How do you capitalize on that? Maybe it’s one of those supporting industries that supports education. Do you write curriculum? Do you write content? Are you a program manager? Can you work in publishing? Can you still work within the education industry, but not necessarily as a teacher? Are there other things that you can do that support the industry? And again, you know, this can be in a variety of different positions.

Gary Hines (16:59):

I know that your focus, Dolph, is on nonprofits. So somebody that is working in nonprofits who gets laid off or downsized can look at all the skills and things that they bring to the table. For example, a nonprofit management or executive does things like reports, delegation, operations, working with people, managing grants, doing compliance, etc. Could those skills transition into a for-profit situation? So I think people need to really take an honest, hard look at what it is they bring to the table and figure out how can they move that into other industries.

Dolph Goldenburg (17:56):

Absolutely. I agree with you on 100%. And I think folks that go work in the for-profit sector during the recession and want to return to the nonprofit sector when possible are going to get some valuable skills in the for-profit sector that are going to be a value in the nonprofit sector.

Gary Hines (18:11):

Definitely. So going back to your first question and pulling this all together. It’s certainly being self-aware of what it is you bring to the table. What am I good at? How can I capitalize on that? And how can I prove it? There’s something called accomplishment stories. And what that is that you take five to seven scenarios of some situation that you were in and you look at it and say, “How did I resolve that issue?” So I’m going to use a quick, elementary example: storage space in a closet. I decided that this is not going to work. We’re never going to be able to house the material we need in this storage space. So I decided to code and colorize.

Gary Hines (18:56):

Take that accomplishment and list it on paper and say, “Okay, here was the problem. Here’s how I resolved it. Here was the end result or outcome. And here’s the skills I used. I used initiative. I used leadership, I used resource management.” And so if you have five or six or seven of these accomplishment stories in your back pocket, you can take them anywhere. You can take them on an interview. You can take them in a networking situation. But you have examples, hardcore facts. Because that’s what employers are asking for these days. They don’t want you to tell them you’re a good manager. They want you to tell them about a time you were a good manager and what you did.

Dolph Goldenburg (19:36):

Absolutely. So Gary, one of the ways that I know you and I are really similar is we take our own advice because that’s what good consultants and coaches do. And so I’m sure you undoubtedly have an accomplishment story from your own coaching experiences. Can you share one with us?

Gary Hines (19:55):

I certainly can. This story is about a young man, I’ll call him Darren. Darren was a very, very accomplished financial professional. He was a certified treasury professional, had a finance degree and many certifications, and had worked in finance with big organizations for many years. He was an accomplished person. As I mentioned, you have to identify the problem first Well, the problem for Darren was that a new company had bought out his existing company. They brought in new folks, a new management team, and their processes. And the way they did things was just not part of the culture that Darren was used to. He wanted to leave because he didn’t fit anymore; his values, goals, and objectives were not aligned with the new organization.

Gary Hines (20:50):

But he was having trouble. So I assessed the situation. He looked good on paper. His resume was perfect, he had all these certifications, and he obviously knew what he was doing. So his resume was not the problem. So we did some practice interviews so I could see his interviewing style. And that was the key. Darren was not a good interviewer.

Gary Hines (21:27):

So I sat him down and we did a series of practice interviews. I filmed him so we could watch and re-strategize how he should deliver answers. So the accomplishment was we identified the problem, we found a solution, and then end result is that Darren got several offers at other organizations and is currently working for BlackRock, which is a major organization in the Philadelphia and Northeast area. So this is an example of using an accomplishment story.

Dolph Goldenburg (22:28):

That’s awesome. I love that accomplishment story. As people are out there looking for new employment opportunities, what are some of the things that they need to be thinking about in terms of how they’re presenting themselves to potential employers?

Gary Hines (22:40):

The first is, as I mentioned earlier, being up to date on what’s happening in your particular industry. Do you know the trends? Do you know the keywords and terms? Do you know what’s coming down the road? So making yourself aware and knowledgeable is one of the key things that everybody needs to have. I also think they need to have a portfolio with their resume, cover letter, personal references, and a letter of recommendation. It should also include those accomplishment stories. They may also want to have something I developed called a professional biography, and this is a one page summary of what you have done as a career professional. It’s almost written in the third person.

Gary Hines (23:41):

So for example, Gary Hines is a seasoned career professional with 18 years’ experience. He has done the following things: X, Y, and Z. He has attended such and such events. He has published a book. A professional biography is something that you can leave with potential employers, you can take to a job fair or a networking event. It’s not your resume, but it would peak enough interest for somebody to say, “Hey, I’d really like to talk to that person.” So having this slate of documents in your tool kit as you’re out there job searching is something I think every job seeker needs to do today.

Dolph Goldenburg (24:18):

If I can jump in and share that I love where you’re going with that. As an interim executive director, and really over the course of my career, I’ve probably hired hundreds of people. If there’s a resume I really like, I promise you, I find them on LinkedIn too. And I cannot tell you how often I will see a LinkedIn profile that’s completely not updated. So maybe their most recent position is not on there. That’s a pet peeve of mine. Another pet peeve is that sometimes their resume and LinkedIn profiles do not have the same jobs. And I don’t just mean same job titles. I mean same organization or same employer. So then I scratch my head and wonder why they skipped employers. And then the other thing that I see that makes me think less of a candidate is when their LinkedIn picture is unprofessional- it’s a photo of them on a boat or them with a drink, it might even be a soda, in their hand. You’re supposed to be presenting yourself professionally. And even if you can’t afford a professional photo, which might cost $100 or $150, you can certainly put on professional attire, go stand on a wall and ask a friend to take your photo.

Gary Hines (25:45):

Right. Even if you do a selfie, you could probably make it look professional enough. And you’re exactly right. Nine out of ten employers are going straight to your social media before they call you. Your online presence has to be crystal clear. It has to be clean. Even if you have a separate name for your personal Facebook versus your professional Facebook. Those are things that employers are looking at these days. The beauty of LinkedIn is that there’s so many templates and processes and forms that LinkedIn will provide you for free. So you can make your profile stand out and you can make it consistent with what’s on paper.

Dolph Goldenburg (26:51):

And I will share with you that there have been times where there have been inconsistencies between what I see on LinkedIn and what I see on the resume and I ultimately decide not to interview the person. Because if they’re not even consistent where it should be easy for them to be consistent, then I wonder about their integrity and honesty. Wo while they might interview well, they might not be a good fit.

Gary Hines (27:17):

Exactly. And one of the key things I tell everybody that I work with is that you, as a job seeker, have to be comfortable with your profile and with your resume. If you have me write it, or you have a professional write it, then you won’t be comfortable with it and won’t be able to speak to it. And that’s going to show through so clearly when you sit down in your interview. You won’t be prepared because somebody else did it for you. So I tell clients I can help them by reviewing and making suggestions. But then they have to go home and do the homework and really study this thing. Because people could take that information and use it against you. If you have no idea what is on your resume, even though it looks really good on paper, that’s not a plus,

Dolph Goldenburg (28:06):

Right. The other way I think people could really promote themselves as experts on LinkedIn is essentially writing LinkedIn articles that they post to their profile. So for example, if you’re a fundraiser and you just completed a $10 million capital campaign, you could write an article on the six most critical components of successfully completing a $10 million capital campaign. If you’re a case manager and you’ve been doing it for five years, you can write an article about the five most important things you learned as a case manager in your first five years. And don’t just use that content once. So first you create the article and then reach out to some blogs and see if you can guest post or reach out to some podcasts and ask to come on as a guest. You’re improving your online presence, but you’re also elevating your status as an expert. And we all are experts in something. We just have to be able to declare it publicly.

Gary Hines (29:13):

Exactly and be able to showcase it to the right folks, to the right audience. And that even ties in back to what I said about adding value to your existing company. If you do that published article on LinkedIn about some topic that’s specifically related to your industry, that’s going to bring name recognition to the company, to yourself. A CEO might say, “We’d be crazy to let this person go! Look what they’re doing on their own time and bringing it to the fore.” Your name out there as an expert is key to getting people to look at you as a possible hire. Also, since we can’t go to networking events, there are many online networking opportunities via LinkedIn, meetup, and other online platforms available these days. You not only respond to people, but you make comments, you share information, you share articles, you post things that are appropriate to the industry. And again you can be seen as a thought leader. So there’s many, many things that a job seeker in today’s world can do, even if they have to do it virtually, to get their names out there.

Gary Hines (30:43):

Another thing that is critical today is knowing the company or companies you want to work for. Go on their social media pages and find out what they are saying. Maybe there are some people in your network that are connected to those people in those companies that you’re targeting. But I say again: study. Study and learn about those organizations you’re interested in working for. Why do you want to work for BlackRock? Why do you want to work for Comcast? What do you know about them? What’s their culture? You should be as intelligent and educated about what the company does as you are about how they feel about social responsibility before you walk into the interview.

Dolph Goldenburg (31:30):

And I think that is doubly important for nonprofits because nonprofits have cultures that develop around their mission and vice versa. So if you walk into an interview and you don’t really understand the mission and you don’t really understand the organization’s culture and the way in which they approach achieving that mission, you’re going to have a lot harder time being successful in the interview. The other thing is please, please take a look at your resume before sending it off. Sometimes we create one resume and then we send it out again and again, and sometimes we send it out with the same spelling error in it a hundred times before we realize there’s a spelling error. But also sometimes we’ll send it out with the wrong information on it. Some people include their objective on their resumes. I cannot tell you how many times I will get a resume and the objective will be something like “to obtain a leadership position in a locally controlled bank.” Well, if that’s your objective, I can tell you right now you’re not going to come work for our nonprofit.

Gary Hines (32:41):

Right. Be aware of these things. And of course, every job, especially if they’re in different industries or different organizations, should have a customized resume and a customized cover letter. So many people have made the mistake of sending out the same template, which says, “Dear Mr. Smith.” And it’s not Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith was the last interview you went on. Or there’s you put certain things in your cover letter that were required for one position and then you left them in there for future positions when they aren’t necessary. Big, huge mistake. Have you worked with the ATS system?

Dolph Goldenburg (33:19):

I don’t think so. Tell me more.

Gary Hines (33:21):

This is a computerized applicant tracking system. Companies will take your resume and scan it through this applicant tracking system to look for key words. And if those key words are not on your resume, then your resume goes to the C file. Applicant tracking is huge, especially for organizations that are getting thousands of applicants. They can easily whittle down to the more serious candidates, the ones that have the words that they’re looking for. And you find those key words in the job description. When you apply for a job, there may be eight things that they said they’re looking for. For example, somebody that knows X, Y, and Z. Those terms should be on your resume because if they’re not, a lot of companies will bypass you and thinking you have no experience and no knowledge about what the company does.

Dolph Goldenburg (34:21):

That is so important for Listeners to know. I know smaller and medium sized nonprofits may not use it, but I’d be willing to bet some of the national big nonprofits do. Well, Gary, this has been such a fruitful conversation and so important. I have a feeling that you and I could continue this conversation for 45 minutes or even an hour, and still not cover everything that candidates should be aware of or that people should be thinking about if they really want to keep their job during the recession. But it’s time to transition to the off-the-map question. You and I have known each other 17 years. Full disclosure, Gary was on the hiring committee that hired me for my first permanent executive director job. And so we’re going to go in the way back machine. You had an early online radio show before people even had podcasts. Talk to us about this.

Gary Hines (35:45):

Well, Dolph, it was such a blessing. I moved into a section of Philadelphia called Germantown, which is a funky little neighborhood outside of the main area of downtown. And there’s a lot of art teachers and poets and writers and activists. And right now Black Lives Matter you can imagine that BLM signs and “No hate in this house” kind of thing are everywhere. But anyway, a young man started an online radio station called G-town Radio. He put an ad in the local throw out paper asking for interested hosts. He had a meeting in a local church’s basement and I showed up. He went around the room and asked what we’d do with an hour of air time. I said I’d probably play old dance music, from the stuff that I grew up with when I was first coming out as a gay man. And I would have a really good time bringing back these old memories. There were about 18 people in the room and nobody else had pitched that. So he was really excited because it was different and unique. So that’s how I got started. I stayed on that online radio station for about three years. I eventually started interviewing people. And I think I did interview you, Dolph.

Dolph Goldenburg (37:09):

You did. I remember that.

Gary Hines (37:11):

Right. So I was able to do interviews in person and over the phone. Of course there was no Zoom or anything like that. We would bring people in and talk about events happening in the community, local parties, where the latest contest was going to be, who was at Fire Island this weekend. It just was a great, great opportunity and I really enjoyed it. I had a great time. They are now not only online, but they have an FM broadcasting station. So G-town Radio is now available on an FM dial, 92.1, I believe.

Dolph Goldenburg (37:50):

That is really cool. I will say, you’re right, G-town Radio was very Germantown. It was very Philly, but it was very, very Germantown which is a hippy, funky, progressive neighborhood.

Gary Hines (38:03):

Yes. We had people doing poetry and spoken word, criminal justice, sports, religion. So this guy, Jim Bears, did a great job of pulling in a variety of folks to do this online show. Now of course everybody and their mother has an online component to their radio station. But I think we were pioneers back in the day. So it was really nice.

Dolph Goldenburg (38:27):

Interesting. Yeah. I’ll share with you the only other online radio station that I listened to was actually out of Australia and they also played that classic dance music from when we were all coming out. So I guess in terms of online radio stations, I must have a type and that type is classic gay dance music from the 1980s.

Gary Hines (38:53):

Yeah, because with Spotify and Pandora you can just customize what kind of music you really want to hear.

Dolph Goldenburg (39:00):

Right. Exactly. Well, Gary, thank you so much for joining us today. And Listeners, if you would like to learn more about career management and strategies for getting the job you would love then head on over to Gary’s website garyheinzconsulting.com. And by the way, Gary is offering a free Zoom or phone coaching consultation to any of our Listeners that want it. It’s a great value. It is well worth it. Even if you’re currently working, have a conversation about your options or what are great ways to make sure that you survive layoffs that may be coming. So if you’re interested in working with Gary for a career coaching or one of his many other services, then just fill out his contact form on the website and he will reach back out to you. Make sure you tell him that you heard about this through Successful Nonprofits® Podcast because that’s what will get you that free coaching session. You can also learn more about Gary and reach out to him on Facebook and LinkedIn. And we will include links for those in the show notes. Hey, Gary, thank you again. You were on episode one and I think this is probably going to be episode 170 or 180. I am so grateful that we have you back on. Thank you so much.

Gary Hines (40:21):

Oh, it’s been an absolute pleasure, Dolph. And a continued success on all the good work you’re doing out there. And I look forward to talking to you again.

Dolph Goldenburg (40:29):

Thank you. If you were busy looking up Gary’s G-town Radio station and missed all the ways to connect with him, then continue with your research. And when you’re done head over to successfulnonprofits.com for all the important links. And while you are at our website, please help us out by filling out the Listener Survey. It’s just 10 questions and will take three minutes or less, but it will help us determine where the podcast is going over the next year. So please share your thoughts with us so we can keep the podcast useful and relevant for you and your life. And while you’re checking out Gary’s Facebook page and LinkedIn, also stop by ours and take a moment to reach out and say, hi. I promise you, I respond to everyone who reaches out to me, whether it’s by email, LinkedIn, Facebook, or the website. And finally, do not forget to check out our expanded coaching opportunities at successfulnonprofits.com. A group coaching experience might be right for you if you’re a first time executive director or your organization is facing a tough time. Dear Listeners, that is our show for this week. I hope that you have gained some insight to help your nonprofit thrive in a competitive environment.

Dolph Goldenburg (41:53):

I am not an accountant or attorney and neither I nor the Goldenburg Group provide tax legal or accounting advice. This material has been provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for tax, legal or accounting advice. Always consult a qualified, licensed professional about such matters.

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