Looking to shake up your fundraising strategy? Then get some inspiration from a political campaign!
I know, I know. You’re probably thinking that political and nonprofit fundraising are worlds apart. And you are right, there is no doubt that they are very different. But there is also no doubt that we have much to learn from each other.
Today’s guest, Perry Monastero, has successfully raised funds for both politicians and nonprofits. So listen in for ideas to shake up your own nonprofit’s fundraising strategy.
Listen to the Episode Here!
RPM Consulting Website
Perry Monastero’s LinkedIn
(5:24) The differences between political and nonprofit fundraising
(6:07) The difference in urgency and donor cultivation
(19:40) The difference in the conversation
(27:31) The difference in donor stewardship
Dolph Goldenburg (00:02):
Welcome to the Successful Nonprofits® Podcast. I’m your host, Dolph Goldenburg. Listeners, I have to tell you, I am smiling from ear to ear and almost laughing because one of my best friends in the whole world is a guest today. And that’s Perry Monastero. I’ve got to tell you a little bit about him, but before I do, let me kind of promo what we’re talking about today. It is election season in America, and the winds of change are a foot. In fact, I have already given to support whoever is running against Senator Susan Collins in Maine. By the way, there’s a great fundraising campaign for that. Literally you give to whoever the democratic candidate is that will be running against Collins. I’ve also contributed to Senatorial candidate, Theresa Tomlinson, here in Georgia. She’s running against an incumbent Republican. And let me say that if we can flip that seat, maybe we can flip the whole state. We’re also supporting a strong democratic candidate, Lee Thompson who is running for chair of the Gwinnett County Commission.
Dolph Goldenburg (01:01):
Now, I know that the vast majority of listeners, around 98%, are not in Georgia. Gwinnett County is a large suburban county. Once again, we’re on the verge of flipping Gwinnett County. If we can flip that we can flip the whole state. But the whole reason I’m sharing with you about who I’m contributing to politically is that my husband and I, every election cycle, pick a few candidates to back strongly and we make gifts that are significant, for us, throughout the election cycle. And we also typically pick one candidate and host a local fundraising event for them. And, you know, we don’t normally raise that much. We’re lucky if we raise $5,000 to $12,000. But it’s something that we do for a local candidate to really try to create the state and the municipality that we want to be living in.
Dolph Goldenburg (01:47):
So while I’m not a professional political fundraiser, I have got a bit of experience as a donor and also as a political fundraising volunteer. I am especially struck at how different political fundraising is from traditional charitable fundraising. I have received high pressure calls from sitting Congress people who called to ask me for as little as $250. And I kind of scratched my head because either times are hard or they are not valuing their time very much. But, I will share with you, that every single one of those calls always has this strong sense of urgency. They will say to me, “Dolph, we have a quarterly fundraising report that is due at midnight tonight. Can you make $1,000 gift right now? It’s going to look good if we raise more money than our opponent.”
Dolph Goldenburg (02:43):
And they are not at all shy about coming back a month later and having another urgent reason about why I need to give them another $250 or $1,000. So there is no doubt that political fundraising is very different from nonprofit fundraising. The quick timelines and the urgency of campaigns often mean that political fundraisers are thinking about the short term. Sometimes I scratch my head because I also noticed that those charities that we give to generously really do a lot of work to cultivate us while the political candidates really don’t. They are more wham, bam, get in there, ask for the money, and get out. So what I’m really curious to know is what can we, as nonprofit fundraisers, learn from political fundraisers.
Dolph Goldenburg (03:28):
And boy, do we have a great guest for you today. Perry Monastero has done both political fundraising and traditional nonprofit fundraising. And when I say traditional nonprofit fundraising, I mean he is a top-of-the-food-chain development director. He knows his stuff when it comes to fundraising. Perry and I go back a long way. He is one of my best friends from my time in Philadelphia, way back in the 20 nuaghts. And back when I met him, he was an executive director of an LGBTQ foundation. Then he transitioned from that and went to a large multimillion-dollar organization as a fundraiser and built a fundraising shop that did incredible things for that organization. In the last year or so, Perry has started his own consulting practice, RPM Consulting. He is a creator and builder, problem solver, and loves helping his clients make a bigger difference in the world through fundraising, capacity building, and philanthropic strategy. So join me in welcoming Perry to the podcast, as we talk about political fundraising and what we in the nonprofit sector can learn. Hey, Perry, welcome to the podcast.
Perry Monastero (04:38):
Hey Dolph, it’s great to be here with you. I’m so happy to talk with you today.
Dolph Goldenburg (04:44):
Same here. I know it’s been a long time coming because we’ve both had technical difficulties the last couple of times we’ve tried to do this. So I’m thrilled that we made it happen. And, Perry, it is always good to see you and hear you. We probably got started about 20 minutes after we got on Skype because we were having a good time and laughing, and I’m sure that our guests are going to hear that as well. Now tell me, because again, you’ve now done some political fundraising campaigns as well, what’s going through your mind when you do that political ask?
Perry Monastero (05:19):
It’s really interesting how you set the stage for this conversation. I think you’re absolutely right in discerning between the two. There’s a level of urgency that one experiences during a political fundraising campaign versus a campaign for a nonprofit, whether it’s a capital campaign or an annual fund campaign, where the urgency is not as blaring in your ears, blaring in your head. So you’ve done a good job of describing how those are different. But I think both types of fundraising styles can complement one another. And I think people who are in fundraising for nonprofits can learn from those who are fundraising for a political campaign and vice versa. The first thing that comes to mind with regard to political fundraising is that, if you don’t have that level of urgency, you’re missing out. There’s something I learned pretty quickly with the team that I was a part of which is that, like you stated, we had timetables and the timetables were real and the people looking at them are your direct competition. There’s a very keen sense of who else is in the race, whether it’s one or, in the case of the first candidate, 47.
Perry Monastero (06:47):
The fact is that these folks who are working on these different campaigns are looking at these reports and it might inspire them to raise more money. It might inspire them to drop out of the race. It might inspire them to do a little bit of both, depending on who they are. Those campaign folks were constantly looking at those reports. So there was that level of urgency. Dolph, I know that you’ve done a lot of political contributions and fundraising yourself on behalf of candidates. You’ve always done that as long as I’ve known you. And when a politician calls you up and says that there’s an urgency, most of the time they’re not making it up.
Perry Monastero (07:27):
If you’re working in a nonprofit and trying to raise money, unless you come up with internal deadlines that speak to your overall vision and your goal for why you’re fundraising, then you’re not going to be able to create that urgency. And I would argue that the folks who are working in nonprofits could learn a few things from political fundraisers, as I did. The truth is there is some value in having routine check-ins, routine reporting out to the constituents that are part of the fundraising team and your greater population. So in the case of a nonprofit doing a campaign, once you announce your goal, you probably should report back on how you’re doing at various points. Or you set up goals along the way so you can make announcements that you achieved a particular goal and now you’re on your way because this new set of dollars is going to help accomplish A, B or C.
Perry Monastero (08:27):
A could be that the dollars are going to help with the building portion of this campaign. Or B is going to meet our needs for staffing or to save a particular program that has been cut by a government or major funder. When you’ve got a political campaign, everyone knows what you’re trying to do. It is crystal clear. And that is an advantage, I think, that you have when fundraising for a candidate. Everyone knows why the money is so urgent. It’s an expensive thing to do in our country the way our system is set up and we have to lean into the reality that has been created for us. And that reality is the cost of running a campaign is so high, in large, part because we have long campaign periods in comparison to other countries where they have shorter ones.
Dolph Goldenburg (09:47):
Right. And I think one of the other ways our system in politics is different than others is we also have this series of elections. So we have primaries and then we have run-offs and then we have the general election. Sometimes we have two run-offs between the primaries and the general election. And the interesting thing is each of those becomes its own fundraising opportunity, in part because the limits get reset every single time you go back to the ballot box.
Perry Monastero (10:12):
You’re absolutely right. It’s one of the most frustrating things about fundraising, but that’s also one of the exciting things. If you can find a way to generate excitement and challenge yourself and your team, then it can be more enjoyable than frustrating. You can, throughout the period, work to give people lists of donors that they can call and then check in with them regularly. And why I’m talking about this particular process is that it’s also a way to limit people’s frustration. It’s a way to keep them excited by letting them know: here’s the particular challenge I have and I need to call X number of people within a particular time, and then you go back to them and you thank them and thank the people who have been volunteering or being paid to make the calls. Then give them another set. One thing that you’ve heard of before, because you’ve talked to so many folks running for office is that they have to do call time. What is called time, Dolph, what happens during call time?
Dolph Goldenburg (11:27):
It’s interesting. Here in Georgia, they actually have an office building across the street from the Capitol with different suites. And every single person in Congress, for each of the two parties, has to go sit in a cube and make their fundraising calls a certain number of hours a week. And we’re not talking three hours, we’re typically talking in the 10s and the 20s, of doing nothing but making your fundraising calls.
Perry Monastero (11:55):
I think some of our most successful politicians are the ones that set aside significant amounts of time. People that that have done political fundraising much more than I say to me that if a politician is not giving 10 or 15 hours a week minimum, they are not going to be competitive when they encounter that race where it’s either close or they have somebody that has raised a ton of money. It could mean the end of their term in office. And that, unfortunately, is the system that we are in.
Dolph Goldenburg (12:29):
Perry, before we go much further, let’s try to jump back on the importance of urgency and some ways that nonprofits that are not doing political fundraising could use urgency. For example, you would say to some prospects, “We’ve got to turn our report in by Monday, which is why we need you to make the gift.” Now, oftentimes the way campaigns work is they start with some momentum and typically you want to get your largest gifts first. And so to be able to say to someone, “We only need two more gifts at the $10,000 level before we can start getting other gifts and start to really close this campaign out. So can you make a commitment by Tuesday for a $10,000 gift?”
Perry Monastero (13:16):
Yeah. What you just said inspired me and reminded me that there is some value in utility and in acquiring challenge gifts from particular donors. You can, on the side or in advance of your campaign, ask donors to match a gift or give a gift if a certain amount can be raised. You can say, “We believe we can raise $500,000 or $1.1 million or $60 million. Would you be willing to give X dollar amount if we are able to raise it? And can we share with folks that you are donating, openly or anonymously?” Knowing that someone else is matching or donating a large amount based on what the nonprofit is able to raise can inspire other folks. Also the way you just described the deadline urgency reminds me that you can add a deadline which I’ve experienced, for sure. It actually helps motivate people to give, because they know that the offer is exploding, whether it’s a single match or a double match, or up to three times the three to one ratio.
Dolph Goldenburg (14:25):
Can I throw something radical in there? You could even have multiple deadlines in there. So for example, you’ve got 12 months to raise it and you need to get 40% of the way in the first four months, then you’ve got to get 80% of the way by the eighth or ninth month, and then you can do the rest in the last few months. That actually gives you the ability to, in some cases, go back to your most loyal donors to say “Look, we know that you gave eight months ago, but we’ve got to bring in another $1,000 or $10,000 or however much it is in order to meet this match. Can you do a little something extra now? We’ve got to do this within the next month.”
Perry Monastero (15:04):
And so what you just described to me sounds like a perfect example of taking a principle from political fundraising and applying it to a nonprofit campaign. How many emails do you get a day? Once you give to a particular campaign, you might get one every other day.
Dolph Goldenburg (15:23):
I have really good email hygiene, so I unsubscribe to a lot. Then if they don’t actually unsubscribe me, I flag them as junk and they then go into junk mail. So I don’t get that many political fundraising emails. Because I already know what causes I’m going to give to.
Perry Monastero (15:39):
Got it. Some nonprofits don’t take advantage of all of their tools, whether it’s email, social media advertising on their website, a pop up on their website, or making phone calls. And of course the way to create urgency, if you’re fundraising for a nonprofit, is live conversation. The more seasoned fundraisers know the conversion ratio of an ask to receiving a gift is much higher when you’re having a conversation live, when you can see them in person. And you can imagine why. There’s a respect that folks have for the in-person conversation and they get the importance and the urgency around the ask because you’re taking time to directly speak with them. It gives them a chance to ask questions and to respond to you if you’re talking about the campaign and maybe offer their input. That’s another way to get their buy in.
Dolph Goldenburg (16:38):
And let me also say they’re relentless and I love that they’re relentless. Georgia’s in an unusual position; both of our Senate seats are up for election this year because of a vacancy. So we have a lot of people running for Senate. So as an example, there’s one Senate candidate on the D side, of course, who will call and leave me a voicemail and leaves his personal cell phone number. Immediately, I mean within moments, follows up with an email which has my name in it and always mentions my husband’s name, Frank. Always. Every single time. And then if I don’t, respond three days later, I will get another voicemail and another email. I mean, truly relentless. And it’s almost like they’re not afraid that I’m going to get tired of hearing from them. I’m going to hear from them until they hear from me.
Perry Monastero (17:36):
Right. I’m going to share with you what I’ve heard from folks who are in nonprofit fundraising worlds: they bristle at that level of assertiveness. My caution to them is that if you avoid following up with some folks, you’re leaving money on the table. Someone said they’re going to give to you. You have to finish the collection. Actually, in some cases, people appreciate the follow-up. How busy are we? We lose track of time. You might be meeting with somebody and the next thing you know you’re picking your kid up from soccer practice and you’ve got to make dinner and you forget that you made that pledge earlier and it’s do in a week. Then you forget and it’s two weeks later and you didn’t give.
Dolph Goldenburg (18:25):
I also think that helps candidates get to “no” faster, which means they know you’re not a prospect and they can strike you off the list and stop wasting time on you. We’ve not yet had our primaries in Georgia as we’re recording this. We’re supporting a different D candidate for the same race. Really what I need to do is send the candidate an email or call them and say, “Hey, we love you. We loved you when you ran for Congress. However, we’re supporting this other person.” Then I’m sure we’d get crossed off his list, at least until after the primaries. If he wins the primary I’m sure we’ll get put back on his list.
Perry Monastero (19:09):
That’s very good point.
Dolph Goldenburg (19:12):
I love nonprofit fundraising, but I think so often we get so stuck in this mindset of “I have to cultivate more, I have to cultivate more.” You can get three or four years in and still not feel like you’ve cultivated enough to ask.
Perry Monastero (19:26):
There are times when folks can get stuck and they may not want to ask. But that’s where the sense of urgency is so essential. It’s a part of fundraising and that’s why deadlines and reporting help you gauge what you’re doing. One of the things that was much more apparent in the political fundraising campaigns that I’ve been a part of is that specific dollar amounts are openly discussed among large groups of people. So you’re looking at some of these names and you’re asking: What could they do right now? What do you think they might be able to do over time? Does it make sense to ask them for the large gift early?
Perry Monastero (20:14):
We have these open conversations with folks that either know the prospective donor or we get the data around them and their political campaign donations. Whereas in nonprofit campaigns, you get some volunteers together. You might have to do a little bit of training and conversation around comfort level of talking about money. And you discuss people that they may know, in some cases maybe their friends, just like it is in the political campaign world. And I think those conversations are helpful to get focused. You get a sense of, not just urgency, but you get clarity and you might get feedback that your ask was either too soon or late. You’re going to figure out if your ask was too high or too low. And you need to listen for whether or not you missed the mark either during the conversation or afterward. And it doesn’t hurt to go back and ask for a higher or lower dollar amount at another time.
Dolph Goldenburg (21:06):
I got two things on that, Perry. The first is one of the ways that I think political fundraising is really different: if you give over $250, it’s public. I think that changes the culture of people’s willingness to talk about it because it’s automatically public. If you give $251 to a candidate, your name’s on a report somewhere that anyone can find, anyone can see. But I agree with you. We need to figure out how to move the needle within our own volunteer corps so that they’re comfortable around that. The other one though, that I just have to reflect on and I’d love to get your perspective on this and I’d love it if you’re like, “Eh, Dolph, I kind of disagree with you” because then we can hash it out here for Listeners. You and I are good enough friends that I know we could hash it out and neither of us would take it personally.
Dolph Goldenburg (21:50):
But I’ve never really felt, within reason, that you can ask someone for too much money. And the example that I always give is when I was in my early twenties: I was just out of school. I was making $21,000 a year at Jewish Family and Career Services. And I lived almost next door to the High Museum of Art. At the time it was not in such a good neighborhood. It’s not moved, but the neighborhood has changed. So I became a $500 donor to the High Museum of Art because of the access it gave me. I literally was giving them about 5% of my income every year, gross income, because of the access. it gave me. At $500, I got an invitation to a few receptions a year. They always had a really cool avant garde film series. I got free admission for me and three other people to a film almost every Friday night, et cetera, et cetera. So I kind of viewed it, not just as my philanthropy, but also as my entertainment money for the year. So, from the High Museum’s perspective, if you’re in your early twenties and you’re giving $500 a year, you must have a much, much higher capacity than that.
Dolph Goldenburg (23:08):
And so they were starting a capital campaign and someone actually called me up and invited me to coffee. And I was young and stupid and didn’t know why, honestly. So I’m like, “Sure! I don’t know anything about you, but I’m interested to learn what you’re planning on building at the High.” So I met the person for a coffee at the High coffee shop, which by the way, my membership got me in there for free and got me a free cup of coffee. So I met with the person and they asked me for not even that much, all things considered. They asked me for $5,000 or $10,000 or something like that. But you know, when you’re making low twenties a year, $5,000 is a big chunk of change. And so when he asked me if I would consider a gift of $5,000, I was not offended at all. I just remember being flattered, thinking that he thought I could make a gift of $5,000. I’ve never been that shy talking about money. So I laughed and said, “I need to tell you, I make $21,000 a year and I can’t do $5,000 but I can do $750.” And I know he probably walked away disappointed, but you know, my gift for the year went up by 50% and I wasn’t offended.
Perry Monastero (24:16):
That whole story is so amusing to me for so many levels, especially since I know you so well, and I I’m sure you appreciated that they were looking to get to know you better and to cultivate you. And so I think that person who was talking with you should have felt, or at least I would have felt, it was a success. He got a larger gift from a young donor and a larger commitment from someone who just shared that this is 5% or more of his salary. But, to your point, I have offended people for asking for too much.
Dolph Goldenburg (24:58):
No, hold on. I need a story. You can’t just tell me that, Perry. I need a story.
Perry Monastero (25:04):
I can’t because the might be listening right now.
Dolph Goldenburg (25:06):
Anonymize it. Take it to another city. You’ve lived in New York and in central Florida, take it to another city. I got to have a story. You cannot just say to me you offended someone without putting some proof behind that pudding.
Perry Monastero (25:22):
I’m not going to say this is an argument, but my counterpoint to you is that some people will bristle. I asked for a mid-six figure gift from someone that was able to do it, but they were not happy with the particular cause at that time. And I think that brought out their frustration and disappointment and what they perceived as the organization’s shortcomings. In another case, it made somebody very uncomfortable because they were not able to fulfill that contribution and it made them feel less than worthy. I apologized for misunderstanding their position and I asked for a range. And they were able to come back and offer a smaller dollar amount in a lower range. But those are two cases, though they weren’t necessarily offended and they weren’t angry with me. The one was wanting to use that opportunity to express frustration with the organization and it was a good learning experience for me to take back to organization’s leadership. And the second was someone who just didn’t want to disappoint.
Dolph Goldenburg (26:49):
I hear you. It’s funny. I’ve never thought about it this way, but I also think maybe the High set their volunteer up to fail and probably left a bad taste in the volunteer’s mouth. So, I hear you. I see the point. While people may not be offended, it might not be a good idea to do that…Sorry. Perry and I are passing notes to each other, thus the pause in the audio. And literally I’m doing it on 3×5 cards and he’s doing it on paper. Man, I miss you, Perry. I miss you being just down the street from me.
Perry Monastero (27:29):
Dolph Goldenburg (27:31):
So we probably need to move to the off-the-map question in just a second. But there is one more thing that I wanted to ask you about political fundraising. I know we’ve talked about the shorter cultivation timeline. We’ve talked about the sense of urgency. But the other thing that I notice is there’s also not the same level of follow-up. I’m a huge fan of acknowledgement and follow-up for nonprofits, but there’s often not the same level of follow-up for political campaigns.
Perry Monastero (28:07):
So what I think I’m hearing from is an observation that there’s not this stewardship that takes place at nonprofits. In comparison, with political fundraising it is not a short term relationship; it’s very transactional in nature. And so it’s like, “Where are you in the moment?” Sometimes you might a very personalized request, as you have with the political candidates you support who are very in tune to who you are. A lot of folks involved in political fundraising don’t have those stewardship skills and they are not thinking about developing long-term relationships. Many of the folks that I’m familiar with end up getting hired from one campaign to the next. They often move around from state to state. And so they don’t have that opportunity to see, longitudinally, what happens when you’re in one place for a long time and you see that donor again. And so, yeah, I could see the distinction between the two in that way. If you are a political fundraiser and you get invited to stick with one candidate’s campaign and then the next, as in the state and federal reps who need to run again every two years, then you can have that opportunity to do stewardship and increase the dollars much more easily. And it won’t feel as transactional in that case.
Dolph Goldenburg (29:48):
So maybe that’s something that political fundraisers could learn from us in the nonprofit sector. Show a little more gratitude, a little more thanks. And it might be easier. We might not dodge voicemails twice before we call you back.
Perry Monastero (30:00):
Yeah. I have to say that I think I could keep learning from people in the political world, but then there are also things I would like to share with folks who are political fundraisers. It’s a privilege to be in this field because we keep learning.
Dolph Goldenburg (30:15):
Absolutely. So, Perry, I’m going to transition us over to the off-the-map question I have known you for almost 20 years, and I learned something about you that I have never known about you, and that is that you also study insects. Now, how does someone like you, with a doctorate degree in education, get started with a hobby of insects?
Perry Monastero (30:43):
My science teacher and my boy scout leader in high school would take us on these trips. He was a Yale professor of entomology, but he was also a high school teacher. And he taught us about mayflies, some of which he had discovered on his own. And I think the mayfly was actually named after his last name in 2017. And what we would do is go camping and then we’d go in the streams and the marshes and find mayflies and other types of insects, and then we’d have to put them into containers and identify them. And we learned a lot about how those particular insects were are arbiters of what could happen. This is back in the eighties and he was talking to us about climate change.
Perry Monastero (31:38):
So you watch particular insects over time and look at do they increase? Do they stay the same? Do they start to dwindle? And it could be a reflection of environment, whether it’s pollution, excess sun, not enough rain. And so I gleaned an appreciation for climate change and the environment through the study of insects. And I love insects. I once had hissing beetles and Madagascar hissing cockroaches. I had them as pets for a period of time. And then I turned them over to a zoo because they made so many babies and the next thing you know, I had literally a hundred and some.
Dolph Goldenburg (32:17):
So hold on. Where were you a youth at that time or an adult?
Perry Monastero (32:21):
I was a youth at that time. And I had a handful of these hissing cockroaches for a work project and did not anticipate that they would be reproducing. And when they did, that’s when we figured out where we could take them. It’s been so long, Dolph. That was the eighties. I don’t remember where I took them. I am so glad that I had this opportunity to chat with you today. It’s been great to see and speak with you, Dolph. It’s been a pleasure.
Dolph Goldenburg (33:22):
So, if you are interested in learning more about the type of work Perry does and the services offered by RPM consulting, make sure you check out their website rpmconsulting.group. Perry has also decided to offer our Listeners a one hour complimentary assessment of your COVID-19 fundraising strategy. And if there was ever a time for urgency in your fundraising, it is probably when you’re thinking about your COVID-19 fundraising strategy. So make sure that you reach out to him and do that. And let me also share with you that Perry will be releasing, in July, a study on organizational adaptation and resilience during COVID-19. I’m sure he’s probably using some of the tools and techniques he learned when he was a doctoral student at the University of Pennsylvania. And I know I cannot wait to read that report. Hey, Perry, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today.
Perry Monastero (34:20):
Thank you, Dolph, I really enjoyed every moment of this call and to reconnect with you. It’s been a pleasure to be on this call with you and reach your Listeners.
Dolph Goldenburg (34:30):
If you were just busy Googling to see how you could get two Madagascar cockroaches and start your own Madagascar cockroach farm so you did not write down Perry’s URL, which is a pretty simple URL, rpmconsulting.group, don’t worry about it. You can always go to successfulnonprofits.com, where we have got all of Perry’s information, his LinkedIn profile, his website, everything you might need to know. Of course, as you know, we’ve got our transcript there and some other great goodies for you at successfulnonprofits.com. And if you liked today’s show, please take a moment to review us on your streaming app of choice. Kay Morrison left us this great review of the podcast on Stitcher: “I love listening to this podcast while doing the boring office work of filing. I’m always taking notes and bookmarking the links. There is such invaluable information shared. Please keep up the great work.” Thank you for the review, Kay Morrison, you have helped others find the podcast and, let me also say, you made my day when I read the review. So thank you so much. That is our show for this week. I hope you have gained some insight to help your nonprofit thrive in a competitive environment.
Dolph Goldenburg (35:46):
I am not an accountant or attorney and neither I nor The Goldenburg Group provide tax legal or accounting advice. This material has been provided for informational purposes only is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for tax legal or accounting advice. Always consult a qualified, licensed professional about such matters.