People who feel satisfied with their jobs are also healthier and tend to live longer. So how do you find that job satisfaction?
Well, you’re off to a great start! Nonprofit professionals often experience higher job satisfaction thanks to their organizations’ socially-oriented missions. But sometimes the mission just isn’t enough. Bea Boccalandro, job satisfaction expert, joins us to discuss 8 steps you can take to increase your fulfillment at work.
Listen to the Episode Here!
Website: Vera Works
To join Bea’s mailing list, text “dogoodatwork” to 47177
Adam Grant’s Giver, Taker, & Matcher Test
Podcast: Episode 130: Building Resilience, Practicing Forgiveness
Podcast: Episode 140: Results Based, Employee Centered
(5:13) A job purposing story
(9:35) The benefits of social purpose at work
(12:37) 8 ways nonprofits can leverage social purpose
(29:09) How to handle staff who resist job purposing
Dolph Goldenburg (0s):
Welcome to the Successful Nonprofits® Podcast. I’m your host, DolphGoldenburg. I am extremely excited for us to be talking with Bea Boccalandro about finding meaning in your nonprofit job. Before we do, I want to touch base about something that I said six months ago. Six months ago, I had said that I did not think it was a good time to do strategic planning. I think as we look into 2021 – it might actually be a good time to think about strategic planning. The reason I said this back in April, May and June is there were just too many unknowns. But I believe in January 2021 there will be a lot more knowns than there are unknowns. So, if you’re thinking about strategic planning, it might be a good time to get it started. Just wanted to make sure that I shared that with you.
Dolph Goldenburg (1m 4s):
Now, it is my pleasure to introduce Bea Boccalandro with you. There are so many reasons why we are having her on this podcast and so many reasons why we are having this conversation about finding meaning in your nonprofit job. You all know that I’ve been in the nonprofit sector for 25 to 30 years at this point. And, time and time again, I will see people – smart people, bright people, articulate people – who will come into the nonprofit sector really genuinely believing that every day they are going to come to work inspired and passionate about the organization’s mission and every day they are going to feel like they are changing lives.
Dolph Goldenburg (1m 46s):
And then, oftentimes, there are folks that are in positions in the finance office, the front desk, a direct service position or a middle management position. At some point, those jobs start to feel like just a job. Then sometimes, people start to feel like, “You know? I could be a middle manager in corporate America and it might even be better.” Or “I could work at a front desk of a for-profit dental clinic and I might feel better than being at the front desk of my nonprofit clinic.”
Dolph Goldenburg (2m 17s):
So, I think it’s really critical that we talk about ways that we can bring meaning to our jobs in the nonprofit sector beyond just the larger mission that your nonprofit is pushing toward. And that is why we have the founder of VeraWorks with us today. Through her company, Bea helps companies engage employees in doing good work. And let me share with you, she works with big household name companies that you have heard of: Levi, PWC, FedEx and Disney.
Dolph Goldenburg (2m 52s):
I could continue listing them out, but I would spend the next 15 minutes listing all of the household brands whose employees she has helped find meaning and purpose in their job. She is so passionate about this that she’s actually put all of this in a book that’s coming out November 2020 called Do Good at Work: How Simple Acts of Social Purpose Drive Success and Wellbeing. I love the fact that she’s being open-source and she’s telling the world how they can do this.
Dolph Goldenburg (3m 55s):
Before I introduce her, I also have to share with you this book, which is not yet released as of this recording date, is already receiving critical acclaim. Adam Grant has listed her book as one of 30 books that everyone should be reading this fall. And when you look at Adam Grant’s list, her book is beside Jerry Seinfeld, Guy Raz, John Cleese and many other people who you have heard of. So, Bea, I am so happy and excited that you are joining us today.
Bea Boccalandro (4m 15s):
I am too, I’m thrilled to be here. Your audience are among my favorite people in the world. You know, one thing that you didn’t mention in the intro, and I’m not even sure that you know this, but I teach nonprofit leaders at Georgetown University. And at one point I moved away from the Washington DC area to California. My boss said “Hey, we should talk.” I was really nervous because I thought, “Oh my gosh. She’s going to tell me now that you’re moving, we should probably find a replacement.”
Bea Boccalandro (4m 49s):
And she was really nervous that I was going to say that I was not going to teach any longer because it required me to get on a plane. But, I told her, “You would not be able to get rid of me because walking into that classroom with 30 nonprofit leaders is the highlight of my year.” So, I am really thrilled to be here.
Dolph Goldenburg (5m 13s):
That’s awesome and thank you so much for sharing that. I certainly saw this in everything that I read about you: you are a for-profit person with the heart of a nonprofit. I’m glad you mentioned that you are willing to get on a plane to go back and teach because in your book you tell a great story about someone in the TSA checkpoint who has the super power to change people’s day. Can you tell us about that?
Bea Boccalandro (5m 53s):
This was a regular day. I’m at the Dallas airport in the and I can hear this male syncopated version, acapella of the happy birthday song. I look up and it’s the TSA agent, and he’s singing it to a woman. When I get up there, I ask him about it and he tells me he’s a singer in a band. And a few years earlier, he just decided to have some fun. He said, “I’m looking at the IDs. I know whether it’s their birthday or not and if it’s their birthday, I’ll just give them a little serenade.” One of the first people that he did this too was a gentleman who had mobility problems. He looked up and he told this TSA agent, “You know? You’re the only person today who has recognized my birthday.” It was evening. And the agent said after that experience, “I have never forgone the opportunity to bring a little brightness into someone’s birthday.” He said, “Every day people thank me. Every week at least one person says I’m the only one to acknowledge their birthday.”
Bea Boccalandro (7m 38s):
Then there’s a woman, also a TSA agent, and she says “It’s amazing how much happiness he brings to people. You can tell that they’re happier as soon as he does this.’” And the reason I put that story in the book is that a lot of us feel like we’re handed our jobs. Here’s the job description and here’s what you do with it. It has a prescribed amount of meaning or lack of meaning, but that’s your job and really you’re doing it because it’s an obligation as an adult to go into work and do a job, get your salary and pay for whatever you need to pay for.
Bea Boccalandro (8m 21s):
But this TSA agent said, “Hmm, I’m not buying that. If I don’t feel that my job is improving the world enough, I’m going to mess with it. I’m going to improve my job and I’m going to push the boundaries of it and I’m going to bring happiness to others.” What he is doing is igniting his every day job with social purpose.
Bea Boccalandro (8m 56s):
Social purpose means that you’re helping others. It doesn’t have to be an official cause; it could just be helping other individuals more than your job would minimally require. Or that you are helping a cause, that you’re helping with hunger or you’re helping with COVID-19 or you’re helping with social injustice. And that’s why that story is in the book, because it’s an example of someone doing what I call “job purposing” which is igniting meaning and purpose in their own job – not waiting for their employer to do it, but doing it themselves.
Dolph Goldenburg (9m 27s):
Part of what strikes me about that story is his job satisfaction must have gone way up.
Bea Boccalandro (9m 35s):
Oh yeah. There’s a reason why, when I walk into that Georgetown classroom with the 30 nonprofit leaders, I am so happy. And it is because it is well established that anybody who feels that their job has social purpose is happier with their job, so their satisfaction is higher. My own research shows about 20% higher satisfaction. But there are lots of other academics that have similar findings as well. They’re more engaged in the job. So that means that they’re more likely to feel like the day goes by really quickly and they’re just enraptured by what they’re doing. They’re more likely to stay at the job and they’re more likely to perform better.
Bea Boccalandro (10m 40s):
There are researchers that looked at individuals who knew that their job was helping with social purpose issues. In this case, it was education. And people who had an identical job, but didn’t know that it was serving any purpose. The first group not only did more work, they took shorter breaks and research finds that the quality of work was better. So, you’re actually a better performer. You’re more likely to get a raise and a promotion because it’s so obvious that you are performing better to other people.
Bea Boccalandro (11m 15s):
Those of you in the nonprofit sector are wiser than the rest of the world because you at some point already knew this and you chose to work in the nonprofit sector. You fundamentally have an advantage because at a structural level, you are working for social purpose. That’s not to say that what Dolph mentioned earlier can’t happen. You’re on the sunny side of work, structurally, because you have a social purpose mission by definition.
Bea Boccalandro (11m 48s):
But it is possible to occlude that benefit by everything else that happens around the job. Having said that, the advantage that you have is considerable. We know that 85% of people that move from the for-profit sector to the nonprofit sector say that they will remain there for the rest of their careers. I’m telling you, you in the nonprofit sector are happier. But that doesn’t mean that things can’t go wrong and that you can’t do things to enhance the sense of purpose that you have, even though you have that structural benefit.
Dolph Goldenburg (12m 37s):
Let’s talk about that. What can nonprofits be doing to leverage that structural benefit so that it enhances the sense of job purposing even more?
Bea Boccalandro (12m 46s):
That’s a great question. There’s one chapter in the book that talks about what drives all the benefits of social purpose. And these are all evidence-based. There’s eight of them. It’s a really dorky acronym, but if it’s memorable, then it works. The acronym is WEGIVEIT. So, the first thing to do is an assessment to see which of the 8 you are meeting and which you are not.
Bea Boccalandro (13m 24s):
We probably don’t have time to go into all of them, so I will quickly list them. I’m happy to just send you this chapter. Just contact me. So it’s better if the social purpose is, W, which stands for Work-Related. You have an advantage in the nonprofit sector because you already have social purpose folded in. So, W is mostly for the corporate people.
Dolph Goldenburg (13m 50s):
I’ve got to ask you a question about that. So, when you say it’s work-related, I assume that means it is directly related to the work individuals are doing. Not volunteering together in addition to work.
Bea Boccalandro (14m 6s):
The first one is better; social purpose should be more to the core of the job. But the second one can work because it’s with your colleagues. Anytime we do a group thing with our colleagues, it feels work-related. It is work-related if at the end of the work day your spouse asks you, “Hey, how was work?” And you go, “Oh my god. Work was terrible. There were all these fires to put out and people were in a bad mood and I didn’t get anything done. But the highlight of my day was at lunch, I tutored a child in reading.” So the volunteering is remotely work related, almost like a vacation from work.
Dolph Goldenburg (15m 40s):
Bea Boccalandro (15m 44s):
E stands for Employee Crafted. If your staff can take a role in designing whatever it is that you’re doing to serve the world, they’ll own it more. G stands for Group. I already mentioned group – anything that you do with colleagues will augment the benefits. And we talked about some of the benefits already, which are job satisfaction, engagement, all of those things. By the way, there are all sorts of personal benefits too – you’re also healthier, your cardiovascular health is better, you’re going to live longer – if your weeks have social purpose in them.
Bea Boccalandro (16m 23s):
I stands for Impact Evident. This one is big for nonprofits. Impact Evident means that you feel confident that what you are doing is actually helping that family or is actually increasing the chances that the ocean will be cleaner for our grandchildren. Dolph, it would be interesting to hear your perspective on this. I think that this is where a lot of nonprofits fail at the day-to-day tasks; they’re not confident that they’re actually doing good out there.
Dolph Goldenburg (17m 3s):
That’s an interesting perspective and I think you’re probably right. The impact is not evident. Especially if you’re in the finance office or the front desk, you don’t have this real sense of “Yes, we’re changing lives every day” or “Yes, we’re making the oceans cleaner.”
Bea Boccalandro (17m 18s):
Great. And then the next one is V, which stands for Visceral. We’re so quirky as humans. Cognitively I might know that my work in the finance department saved money which means we can put more money toward our homeless clients. And I might feel good about that cognitively, but that is all on paper. So, the next driver is that you have to viscerally feel the impact. And that means you met one of the families and you saw the four year old girl running around the apartment and going, “Oh my God, we get to live here! We get to live here!” It has to have some heart in it. So it’s not just enough to know that on paper that you made a difference, but that you feel it in your heart.
Bea Boccalandro (18m 21s):
E stands for Evolving. Dolph, you talked about getting in the nonprofit sector and being all excited about your job; you’re changing the world. And then it turns into a job. Really often what’s missing there is change. One of the quirks that we have as humans is that something that delights us on day 1 does not delight us on year 10. So this is all about making sure people grow into different jobs and responsibilities. It just needs to evolve. So, if you as a supervisor are like, “Wow! I have a team of three. When they all came in they were happy. Two years later, they’re antsy. They’re looking for other jobs. I did something wrong.” You probably didn’t do anything wrong. They just need to evolve. We need to evolve as humans.
Dolph Goldenburg (19m 5s):
What I think I hear you saying is that they’ve outgrown your department because your department’s not grown.
Bea Boccalandro (19m 12s):
Oh, I love that!
Dolph Goldenburg (19m 14s):
That’s literally what I just heard.
Bea Boccalandro (19m 19s):
Wow. I said that? I’m impressed with myself.
Dolph Goldenburg (19m 22s):
That is really what you said. Someone’s been here two years and they’re ready to leave. Well, that’s because they’ve outgrown our department and we’ve not grown our department to continue to engage them.
Bea Boccalandro (19m 36s):
I love that. We should co-write the next book. That’s beautiful. The seventh one is I, which stands for Introspective. There’s lots of evidence from linguistics and from education that if we don’t verbally express something, whether verbally or in writing, we actually don’t learn a whole lot about the experience and it doesn’t affect us. It’s almost like it bounces off of us. So Introspective is trying to make sure that you and your staff, reflect.
Bea Boccalandro (20m 10s):
Reflection is one of the most powerful tools we have. And it’s so simple. It’s free, except for a little bit of time. So maybe on Fridays there could be a brown bag lunch and everyone could discuss what they learned that week. Or what was a peak and what was a low and how does this connect to helping those homeless families? Just reflecting on the social purpose activities will help all those benefits that we talked about – including health, satisfaction and retention – stick. Because otherwise it’s harder for them to stick.
Bea Boccalandro (20m 51s):
And then the final one is T for Tenderly Led. There are organizations that do really well in the first seven, but then somehow the leadership decides that the way to lead is very objective and all about logic and not a whole lot about heart and not showing they care about that family and that four year old. That is the model of leadership that someone adopts. If this is happening, then you’re undermining all the benefits that we talked about.
Bea Boccalandro (21m 58s):
So those are the seven drivers of high impact job purposing. The first step is to go through and see where you can improve. I’ve been doing this for 20 years. So I can tell you the beauty is that small improvements can make a huge difference. We’re really sensitized to this. And by the way, you can have a world-class socially purpose driven team that is really satisfied in doing all these things. And you’re only meeting two-thirds of these to any high degree. You don’t have to meet them all.
Dolph Goldenburg (22m 18s):
I love this. Help me with some examples of nonprofits that have done a really good job of job purposing and getting the WEGIVEIT right.
Bea Boccalandro (22m 30s):
The one that comes to mind immediately is TutorMate. So,TutorMate is an organization that offers reading assistance to first graders. It’s half an hour a week. It’s remote. It’s not even via video. But there’s a beautiful interface. So, as a tutor, I would see the flashcards that I read off and then the student is looking at some different version of what I’m looking at that works for him or her.
Bea Boccalandro (23m 6s):
It’s during the school year. It has lots of structural disadvantages. And this is why I chose this example, actually, because when you think about it, it’s not terribly work-related. I didn’t have a big role in crafting it, so the employee-crafted is not necessarily there. It’s not in a group; it’s one-on-one. The impact is kind of evident because they move up in grade level, but not totally. It’s somewhat visceral because you can hear their voice and these kids are just unbelievably charming. But you’re not in the same place, you can’t even see them. It’s a pretty stable model. It’s not that evolving. And then introspective. When you think about it, it’s not that introspective. They actually do a great job at tenderly-led.
Bea Boccalandro (23m 36s):
So, what have they done to have it work better? First of all, impact evidence. They went out and they hired a third party to look at whether or not this really works. And they share that. It’s in the intro video when you become a tutor. So you know from the beginning that this child has a much better chance of going to second grade because of your help. The visceral part: at the end of the school year, before COVID, tutors are invited to the classroom. And let me tell you, if you ever want to feel like rock star all you have to do is become a TutorMate tutor because as soon as the child realizes that you are the Bea that he or she was on the phone with, they will run to you and tackle you with this huge hug.
Bea Boccalandro (24m 52s) :
I still have the picture of the first grader that I tutored up because it’s just that meaningful. In terms of evolving, again, they want to stick to their model because it works really well, but they have an online event for all the tutors from everywhere and they make things novel. They’re just always working to make things novel.
Bea Boccalandro (25m 23s):
In terms of introspective, I think it’s the same thing through communication. They’re asking, How did this go? And what did you think? They’re always making us think about it and give them feedback. I consider this program a smashing success. I just think the tutors are these happy, high retention, high performing workers. The program works. It’s sustainable and all of that, but you can see that it wasn’t total rocket science, right? You just go down the job purposing list and do a few things here and a few things there.
Dolph Goldenburg (26m 0s):
Now that you have shared that, I have an example of job purposing from my own career. At the time, I didn’t realize what was happening. 20 plus years ago, when I was the Director of Development at the St. Vincent de Paul society, one of the rules was that all of us employees needed to volunteer on average one hour a week somewhere else in the agency. So twice a month, I taught in the evening in our life skills program.
Dolph Goldenburg (26m 32s):
And I taught household budgeting and finance because I’m pretty good at household budgeting and finance. It was this really powerful experience because I had the opportunity as the Development Director. Normally, I did not get to meet clients unless I was taking a donor around or something like that. Also, that meant that I knew clients could get financial assistance from the St. Vincent de Paul society, because this class was a requirement for them.
Dolph Goldenburg (27m 5s):
And it was great because I brought a skill that I’m really passionate but that, at the time, I did not really use at work. And it also, frankly, enhanced my ability to do my job because now when I talked to donors I could talk about how I volunteer in our life skills program. I could talk about what that program was and give specific examples of how we were helping clients. But it’s interesting because I never realized that was job purposing, but that was 100% job purposing.
Bea Boccalandro (27m 47s):
Yes. I love that example. One tidbit about that is that you did use your skills and that’s one way to make it feel work-related too. So, that works as well. And to your point that you were doing this and you didn’t know you were doing it, all I did was label it. Because many happy, fulfilled skyrocketing, career-people naturally do this, but they don’t really know that they’re doing it.
Bea Boccalandro (28m 26s):
If I were to go to you and say, “Hey Dolph, do you know that you’re probably 20% more satisfied and half as likely to leave your job? And that actually you’re going to sleep better tonight because that’s what you chose to do with your volunteer hours?” You’d be like, “I don’t think so, I mean, it’s a good thing to do, but it’s not that impactful.” But it is. And a lot of people naturally do this. So, the beauty of this is that all I’ve had to do is gather those stories.
Dolph Goldenburg (29m 9s):
I also just have to say, in the interest of full disclosure, that we did have a couple of staff members who really resented it. They felt like it was forced volunteerism and , frankly, their minds, their hearts, their bodies just closed off to it. As an example, they might go and stock shelves in the food pantry and grumble the entire time. “ I’m a highly trained professional and I’m just stocking shelves.” It was not the majority of people, but we did have some people who really felt like it was forced and were upset about it.
Bea Boccalandro (29m 55s):
Yes. So I think we need an awareness of what acts of social purpose do for us and really that it’s a human need. So there’s a cardiologist in New York, his name is Rozanski, and he basically says that social purpose is the greatest driver of human wellness. He’s a doctor and he’s saying this. So I think our awareness of this, of our need for social purpose and our ability to even take it in, can fall anywhere on a spectrum.
Bea Boccalandro (30m 35s):
And unfortunately, our educational system, our system for rewarding employees, Hollywood, basically all of society is telling us something different. For example, I knew writing this book that there are going to be people that are going to think it is a bunch of hogwash. How could doing a little bit of good be that impactful? Well, the evidence is overwhelming, but we’re catching up as a society to that.
Bea Boccalandro (31m 5s):
So, if someone has that mindset, if they have already made up their mind that all this is just their employer trying to control them to make them do things, then they’re not going to see the bright side of it. And I’m glad you brought this up because I do think, especially for those of you who are supervising nonprofit staff, that you should realize that it’s kind like exercise 50 years ago. 50 years ago the evidence was already overwhelming that exercise was fantastic for us. But most of us sat on our butts, not exercising, unaware and resisting it. Now we’re all convinced that exercise it’s good for us. So I would say that social purpose is the new exercise.
Dolph Goldenburg (31m 59s):
I will also say, in the nonprofit sector, it feels to me like doing something along those lines where we do ask everyone to be job purposing in some way is also a good litmus test for who should and shouldn’t be on our team.
Bea Boccalandro (32m 16s):
Yes. I agree. If I’m a supervisor, I would definitely do that because I’m lazy and I like working with great people. But I don’t want to over-interpret that because I don’t want us to give up on the people that need a little more nudging. There’s actually very good evidence out there that if we just hire people by how socially purpose oriented they are – academics call it prosocial behavior, prosocial inclination – we will end up with much higher performing, happier teams. But again, I’m not thrilled with over-using that because I don’t want to leave people behind. I just don’t give up on those people that need a little more time to catch on.
Dolph Goldenburg (33m 13s):
So, Bea that’s fair, but now I’m going to ask you the hard question: How do we screen for that prosocial behavior in the recruitment process?
Bea Boccalandro (33m 24s):
Well, I’ll give you the social human answer and then the academic one. So, the more socially friendly one is just to look at their history and ask them about it. It’s not necessarily true that everybody that has volunteering in their past – only 30% of Americans volunteer every year – is going to be prosocially oriented because it could have been a requirement in high school or they could be doing it because there was some cute girl or some cute guy. There are all these other non-pro-social related reasons. But if it’s in their history and you ask them about it and they’re prosocially oriented, they will light up when they talk about it. So they will sound like me talking about Camillo. Like, “Oh my god! It was just so great to tutor!” So, that’s the friendly social answer.
Bea Boccalandro (34m 32s):
Now, if you want the high rigor, nerdy answer, then ask them a few simple questions. There are these tests that determine how much of a giver or a taker or a matcher we are. So, giver is the person we’ve been talking about, someone who is prosocially oriented. Takers look at the world and wonder what they can get out of it. Matchers give exactly as much as they get. Adam Grant has an online test that is very easy to take. So there are formal ways of doing it and Adam Grant’s test is a fantastic way. Just to have them fill it out and share the results.
Dolph Goldenburg (35m 23s):
Good to know. We’re actually going to link to Adam Grant’s test in the show notes. We could continue with this conversation for at least another hour, but I want to be respectful of your time. But I can’t let you go without asking you the off-the-map question. I understand that you have taken up surfing in the last few years.
Bea Boccalandro (36m 6s):
Yes. I was hoping that I sounded rational and like I have good judgment up until this point. And now like that’s all thrown out the window because I started surfing in my fifties. People probably think I’m completely nuts. But I can’t tell you how energizing it is. I do think that we should all be trying something that is difficult and uncomfortable and fun. I think it keeps us humble and it helps me understand people that are new to what I’m trying to teach.
Bea Boccalandro (36m 45s):
And I love how you said, “I don’t if it’s a hobby, if it’s a sport.” Well, I can tell you that if you saw what I did yesterday out there, you would say, “This is not a sport. She’s not quite at the sport level.” I do manage to stand up and get some rides in, but it’s definitely an evolving thing. It keeps me humble and I think it also helps me stay sane. So, when you’re out here, Dolph, I’ll take you surfing.
Dolph Goldenburg (37m 19s):
I was going to say mad respect and I would love to learn how to surf. But I should probably learn how to swim before I learn how to surf.
Bea Boccalandro (37m 35s):
That sounds like a good idea. Send me a text when you’ve learned how to swim and then we’ll plan the surf lesson.
Dolph Goldenburg (37m 40s):
You better believe it. Bea, I am so thankful that you joined us today and I want to make sure that our listeners know all of the ways they can connect with you. So listeners, if you are interested in Bea’s book and let me tell you, you really should be because this can help transform the teams at your nonprofits, then go to dogoodatwork.com. And if you want to be on Bea’s mailing list then text ‘dogoodatwork’ to 47177.
Dolph Goldenburg (38m 12s):
Also, if you preorder Bea’s book, which is scheduled to launch on November 24th, you will be able to select from a number of different gifts. Now, we’re recording this about six to eight weeks in advance, so the gifts are not fully finalized. But Bea shared a few of them. You can get a mug. You could get – and this is frankly my favorite one – to be a part of a discussion group with Bea. Or you could choose to have Bea pick up litter and debris on the beach for five minutes. And if that’s the one you choose, she will take a picture of it and she will send you a text. So that’s how she is job purposing her own book launch and I love that. Bea, thank you so much for joining us.
Bea Boccalandro (39m 45s):
Oh, it was my pleasure Dolph. I really look forward to hearing from your listeners. And what an enriching conversation. I really loved this.
Dolph Goldenburg (39m 54s):
Thank you. Listeners, if you did not catch those URLs or text codes because you were busy thinking about ways that your nonprofit and team can start to create some job purposing opportunities, have no fear. You can just go to successfulnonprofits.com and you can get all the URLs we talked about.
Dolph Goldenburg (40m 28s):
If you enjoyed this episode, I would recommend two more episodes for you to check out. Go back to episode 130 with Jeanie Cockell and Joan McArthur-Blair about building resilience. Also check out episode 140 with Wayne Sleight on the employee-centered organization. Some of the things that Bea talked about Wayne also talked about, so it’s a great way to reinforce this concept.
Dolph Goldenburg (40m 59s):
And finally, as you’re looking into 2021, if you think, “Hey, maybe we should be doing strategic planning.” Reach out to me at successfulnonprofits.com. And that listeners is our show for this week. I hope you have gained some insight to help your nonprofit thrive in a competitive environment.
Disclaimer (41m 18s):
I am not an accountant or attorney and neither I nor the Goldenburg Group provide tax legal or accounting advice. This material has been provided for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide and should not be relied on for tax, legal or accounting advice. Always consult a qualified, licensed professional about such matters.
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